115514-community-to-devs-what-we-hear-from-other-players
Content ---- I do like this idea, though we probably won't be seeing this until year 2 unless they have been already working on it for the last few months. | |} ---- ---- This one is news to me. Or do I put too much value in secondary stats and my HP pool? | |} ---- ---- I don't think that overly solves the problem with PvP balance Neph. I play a Spellslinger, I don't heal, so I use LAS 1 for PvE and LAS 2 for PvP. But that doesn't mean that the core changes to Quick Draw a few patches ago (changing it from 5 to 3 targets hit) wouldn't effect PvP / PvE. QD was a staple of sustained SS DPS for PvE, but the reduction in targets that was meant to nerf us in PvP also nerfed us in PvE when we were already doing poorly in a raid setting. Granted that change didn't hurt us on boss fights, but with trash clearing it did, it's not the best example but is the easiest that came to mind so roll with me here... If instead QD operated one way in PvE and a completely different way in PvP (or an AMP skill) it would be easier to balance. You could use the same names and the same animations but have it like GW2 where you port to the Mists to set up your PvP gear, PvP spec, etc. and you could balance the different abilities and AMPs for PvE and for PvP independently of one another. That's not just critique for WS, I don't understand why more MMO's don't take this approach... | |} ---- I agree with this as one way to help alleviate some of the issues. WoW had something similar in ICC (primordial saronite) that worked really well. Gear you could make with it wasn't over powered but strong enough that getting one of these to drop was a big deal. Made things exciting. | |} ---- ---- I don't disagree at all. My point though was that something really easy that could be done very quickly would be an extra LAS slot specifically for PvP. Not that it was the only thing needed :) For example I have three active characters right now, my engineer, my spellslinger, and my esper. All three of them use both ability sets because I run a lot of group PvE content, and sometimes I need to be the tank or the healer. For me to really effectively PvP with them today I need to use elder gems to purchase the third ability set. That's a huge barrier to entry for casual PvP. The game's basically telling us "look, you can excel at group PvE content, or you can excel at PvP content, but you can't excel at both until you're level 50 and have spent a few weeks doing dailies." Maybe that's not the intent of the design, but it's how it's turning out. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- It makes all the sense in the world but "PVP l33T Studs" will flat out lose their minds and no one wnats to listen tot hem whine and complain. This concept originally came out of WoW where, once upon a time ago, there was no such thing as PvP gear. What was happening is high end PvE Raiders would just destroy other players in BG's as their awesome purpurple gear was better than everyone else. People who were not high end raiders were complaining that PvP was not about skill.... it was only about gear because these high end PvE raiders cannot possibly be as l33t as "PvP l33T Stud #3287" and the only reason they can win is because of their raid gear not thier 'skill'. Out of this came the "Honor/Valor" PvP gear and gear tied to PvP rating. This created a situation where only people who PvP alot and, at least for some of the rated gear, needed to be successful to obtain this gear. The irony, as we saw here on Wildstar, is it creates a scenario in PvP where people who have the higher rated gear (1800 gear anyone) always win because of their gear and people who don't have the gear have no chance. The best solution is just to normalize all gear in PvP or make one set available. This would be a level playing field for all. This never goes over well as "PvP l33T Stud #3287" really does not want a level playing field based on my experience. | |} ---- You do. However this is mostly true for DPS, and maybe heals, but not so much tanks. Basically if you're DPS you get Strikethrough to soft cap, then all AP, then Brutality/Finesse/Moxie (depending on which gives you AP) where AP isn't an option, then crit chance, and all other stats are garbage. | |} ---- Exactly. The apparent problem was that raid geared players were winning in PVP because they had better gear than other people that didn't raid, so they made PVP specific gear. Apparently, participating in and enjoying both raiding and PVP in the same gear was bloody sacrilege to players that didn't do any PVE. Now we have the exact same problem in every new game with goddamned PVP gear except we're looking from the other side. PVP players have the best gear to kill players with, and nobody else stands a chance. PVP matchmaking now takes forever because PVEers who only dabble in PVP don't want to get their asses handed to them. The existence of PVP stats is inherently detrimental to the PVP scene in your game because it turns off anybody who would only be doing it casually, thereby reducing the potential pool of players who would participate. The only correct solution for a rated leaderboard system is to have one set of gear (a uniform given to every participant for free) with a specific set of stats that never changes, like in GW2. More specifically GW2 gives you access to an armory with a variety of gear to pick from, but you can't bring outside gear. Rewards in this case would be strictly costume pieces/costmetics. If it's not rated, you should be allowed to use whatever the hell gear you want. Except hardcore PVPers don't seem to give a *cupcake* about a level playing field in the first place. | |} ---- I do 100% agree that the third LAS should just be "unlocked" at some point as you level and not tied to Elder Gems and with what you're saying in that regard. | |} ---- For Spellslingers at least, from what I've read and my experience testing it out, AP > ST even when you aren't capped on ST (unless you are comparing an ungodly amount of ST vs a small amount of AP). | |} ---- Yep. This is pretty much the reason I rarely PvP, despite having enjoyed it in other games. I have some PvP pieces, but I still get steamrolled against a well geared group. Meh, it's just not fun so no reason to queue. I'd rather do a dungeon where I can have some success. Perhaps once I get a 4th LAS (third will be a healing LAS, since I use one and two for dps/utility and I have a ton of fantastic healing gear I've never used) I will make a serious effort at working on PvP. Which will only happen after I get full ability/tier points. So maybe some time next year I might look at PvP in this game? | |} ---- ---- Forgot Strikethrough, which comes after AP and Finesse but before all the others. SS stats aren't going to change that much with Drop 3. We'll get a better benefit from Finesse runes over AP runes, but it's not that big a deal. It's a huge deal for the heavies. | |} ---- ---- It doesn't take a lot of strikethrough to hit the 7% soft cap for PVE. Ultimately you will have a vastly greater amount of AP. | |} ---- QFT. If you really don't want a different tag, that's what Circles are for. Make an alliance with other guilds in a Circle. | |} ---- Some good feedback here and well presented! Thanks for sharing with us. I believe a number of items are going to be addressed with the next Drop and then will be a part of the drops following that. Hopefully we'll have some information on this coming in the future. Sadly not much I can add myself, as I'm not a Dev who knows how hard it is to implement some of these ideas, but it's all good feedback and I'll be flagging it to the teams. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and concerns, this sort of feedback and suggestions is truly appreciated and welcome! | |} ---- ---- 1 - Hopefully the next drop will address many of them, but we'll continue to fix as many as we can. 2 - There is lots more of this coming. The next drop will have a solo instance as well as a new overland content zone. The drop after that will have a couple of new dungeons, maybe veteran shiphands, and possibly some more stuff as well. 3 - We are looking into lots of ways to help improve this. Such as providing a lot more options for different Types of content to do for 'daily' style rewards instead of the same set each day. 4 - Updated 5 and 6 - This should be getting greatly improved in the next couple of drops. The rune changes in the Defile Drop will make GA gear *significantly* more desirable. The set # of runes will have the raid-level gear feel like a big upgrade far more consistently than it currently does. 7 - Hopefully the other changes coming will help make this far more feasible. However, I will mention it to the econ team and keep an eye on making sure that it isn't too painful to do so. | |} ---- Timetravel you are officially a hero! THANK YOU for posting this! | |} ---- All promising... but. For Jariel's sake get skilled people back into dungeons. I'm in a guild just barely big enough to raid and basically those most capable categorically refuse to go back into Sanctuary of the Swordmaiden. Not even to help guildies get attuned so the roster boss doesn't wipe them the second two people have to call it for the night. And pugging that beast is right out if you want to keep your sanity in not /unsub in screaming rage. I'm becoming more and more suspicious one of the core problems is the dungeons are harder than the raids - because people with the choice ain't doing dungeons. To me there is no question that the difficulty-to-reward ratio is badly skewed between those two tiers. | |} ---- Weren't the pristine key drops from Ohmna supposed to be in by now? I thought those were not connected to Drop 3 and were supposed to come with the switch from silver dungeons to bronze? I've been laying down the political legwork to free attune my alt because I'm lazy, but the keys have to be in for that to work. | |} ---- | |} ---- Unless the reward for the daily dungeon/adventure/whatever is a huge chunk of xp it still won't be competitive with doing daily quests. Please, just make sure that a silver run of a dungeon has the same ep gain/hour that one should expect doing daily quests(I can do a full set in 30mins for 15% of my daily EP requirement). Seriously, no-one wants to do dungeons now because the drops are poor(I still have multiple adventure/rep drops with nothing in dungeons to replace them) and because the EP gain is under half of what you would get in dailies. People are doing 3 things for ep now - straight up AoE grind mobs - dailies - wotw grind I've never liked grinding so that leaves out aoe grind, and at this point I utterly despise both dailies and wotw them and want nothing to do with them. Yet I generally end up doing the dailies near the end of the week to make sure i cap out. I know a while back you guys pointed said you are happy with wotw and I can only presume this is because of metrics pointing to lots of players queuing for it. People are not queuing for WotW because they like it. They're queuing for it's just a little less mind-numbing than dailies. This does nothing but build resentment within me for the game, which otherwise I generally enjoy. If only the EP gain on dungeons was half-decent I could actually convince guildies to do that instead and we could enjoy the challenging fun content the game has to offer. | |} ---- Awesome! Thanks for posting and thank you for a great tier of raiding so far. | |} ---- *quiet screaming* | |} ---- Agreed. Either normalize all gear in PvP and find a different way to reward players or remove rating as sole requirement to buy gear and make it possible to grind it. | |} ---- ---- ---- Just to touch on your part regarding maintaining a raid ready character. I trully cannot understand this. Simply reaching EP cap outside of raid will yield enough money to buy your consumables. The mats for your potion (Reactive) are fairly low. Last time I did the math, 1G of mats = 18 encounters, and about 10 seconds to craft on a technologist. (Assuming you do a BUY ORDER and not a BUY NOW). Why reactive? My math might not be so good, but 70 > 63 The mats for food are fairly low. Choice Meat is 20s, Heartichoke 40s. This the biggest money sink, as you need 2 of each, equalling 1.2g / 5 mats. Combined, you're spending 30s~ a wipe. For 5P, thats nearly 1700 wipes a week! YIKES~! | |} ---- I think PVP balance should not be to do with more specs, but could adjust gear for classes that are not performing and also just add PVP infront of stat name to make PVE gear completely useful for PVP. This is the only way to rebalance without effecting PVE. And to be honest most of my PVP builds as DPS include 4 from the utlity tree so I would say the utility tree is very much the core PVP tree, it is why PVP offence/defense amps are on the ones next to the utlity part of the amp tree. | |} ---- ---- I use expert boosts. With each fight having built in spots with downtime I don't see how a stacking 10 second boost is worth it for 9 finesse. I have to believe that if the buff falls off of you even once during a 5 minute fight the 9 finesse gain is gone. X-89 you'll lose it during a big bomb, Kuralak pillars, Maw air phase, Prototypes augmentor color phase, Convergence stopping dps mutliple times etc... | |} ---- Then youre paying more for less. The 10 second boost is prevalent as long as you are engaged. It only drops off in breaks, then when you re-engage it ramps up quick again. Any fight extending 10 seconds (or more), the reactive outweighs at the expert. I cannot think of a single fight in which this does not occur. Your call what you want to do though. Another point in regards to raid costs - you know that no one has to repair, right? | |} ---- No one has to repair? | |} ----